Monday, July 07, 2008

RAW On The Psychedelic Salon

The latest episode of Lorenzo Hagerty's wonderful podcast; The Psychedelic Salon, features 2 interviews w/ Robert Anton Wilson. The "Everything is Under Control" interview w/ D Scott Appel and the audio companion to RAW's book, TSOG: The Thing That Ate the Constitution.

RAW recently made a cameo on the salon via audience participation during a Timothy Leary lecture, but Podcast 147 - RAW: “Conspiracies and TSOG” is his first full appearance.

Lorenzo regularly podcasts lectures from prominent psychedelic thinkers, Terence McKenna most usually, though Timothy Leary has also begun appearing lately, the salon's archives are definately worth persual. I most highly regard the large collection of Trialogues w/ Mckenna, Sheldrake, and Abraham. Many of these talks are exclusive to the salon, donated directly from Ralph Abraham.


Ben Mack said...

Friends of RAW... I'm grateful that Maybe Logic is being propagated by you and your readers. I hope that this comment is seen as a friendly invitation. I know I have a weird reputation and many see me as a shameless marketer... and I dig that. I like people seeing me as having less shame than I do. And I am a marketer... and I hope you will consider the RAW conversation at to be worth your attendance.

Bogus Magus said...

heh heh

Thanks for the link Ben...I only wish I could go to Oregon in October (10th-12th)...Lots by or about Antero Alli, Dennis McKenna, Bucky, etc.

Esozone - a weekend event of fringe science and magick

Plenty for this tribe to enjoy.

Note: We might need the advice of a marketer when distributing the hard copy Maybe Quarterly... :-)

quackenbush said...

Dear Ben Mack,
I have no problem with shameless marketers per se, but I have a big, huge problem with people who falsify quotes of Robert Anton Wilson (particularly right after death) in order to whore their latest book. This qualifies you as a huge fucking douche. Congratulations. Now please go fuck yourself.

Bogus Magus said...

Heh heh, I know what you mean QB, and felt the same way at the time…but it passed.

I don’t assume that Ben Mack 2008 necessarily thinks the same way that Ben Mack 2007 did. I could easily have got that wrong, as some people don’t appear to change much, if ever.

I also quite like the idea of forgiving people, as Bob seemed to manage (even with George Bush), after a quick rant. Disliking people, all the way up to hatred, just poisons yer own system. IMHO

But then again, we all may understand guerilla ontology differently. New readers - don’t believe all you read (even things that appear like quotes from Robert Anson Wilson). George Carlin had all kinds of internet dross attributed to him, to the point where he felt the need to add a disclaimer on his site. And now he died, too, and can't correct the misuse of his name.

So, I have no particular affinity with Ben – but I still feel willing to hold a conversation with him. After all, he appears as immune to people disliking him as Harry Coin.

I mean, I went over to see the Discordians, with my psychedelic twinkle and absurd sense of optimism, expecting to find similar types, only to discover that they seemed to think of this world as a grim place, a Black Iron Prison – as though they had never had a psychedelic glimpse of absurd joy and hilarity – and had spent their time choosing between methedrine (and a sense of serious urgency combined with paranoia) and downers (complete with a sense of hopelessness). Don’t even think you can escape. Maybe I didn't - even though it felt as though they ran me out of town!

I mostly think of myself as a George Dorn, but sometimes you meet a Joe Malik, or a Simon Moon, or a Harry Coin, or someone approaching the elephant from a different angle. How you react to them remains your choice, of course.

But then again, perhaps you shouldn’t trust an imaginary conversation between a couple of people with the initials BM. (not ‘BVM’)

And, like I said, at the time I agreed with you QB, but I got over my grief now...

Don’t Blame George - bogus quotes

Urban legends - disinformation about George

Bogus Magus said...

Don't you love a 'coincidence'?

Just after I posted that comment I watched the latest version of the BBC's New Tricks - and the whole plot revolved around a 'murder note' signed with the initials BM.

I didn't make that up. All together now "just a coincidence, just a coincidence..."

And bear in mind I consider myself an Old Dog...

The Purple Gooroo said...

Right on, Bogus! - very eloquently put (though I share some of QBs disdain for Ben Mack's marketing and tactics). I had a few words with him at this very site not too long ago.

I figure, let the guy be who he seems to be--as well as those 'hopeless' Discordians at their message board. If they seem to have lost the plot--well, as Bogus says--maybe they're approaching the elephant from a different angle. It's not the angle *I* want to approach it from--but hey, as Abbie Hoffman said "There seems to be lot of different realities going on around here" (something like that)

I like the idea of forgiveness as well--even if it seems easier in theory than in practice (I'm getting better, though...honest)

Bogus Magus said...

I wasn't contradicting QB, Gooroo,

I felt equally angry a year or more ago when I found that RAW was being used as a random quote to sell a book. The joke about films and theatre and books taking quotes out of context, or leaving out part of the sentence, etc - is standard practice for blurbs - so I wouldn't expect anyone to be shocked or surprised by that. And I had no proof, of course, that BM didn't know Bob (still don't), or that Bob hadn't read Poker Without Cards (still don't), or that Bob hadn't said something nice about it in (say) an email (still don't). So I prefer now to keep my peace with the man.

I even went into a copywriters' website briefly, at BM's invite (I like getting outside my reality tunnel), but couldn't sustain a conversation. And I enjoyed the video I saw of BM (I like to see people, and hear their voices sometimes) - but I certainly don't intend to antagonize QB, as he and I misunderstood each other before now - when I acted very rude to Kent in the forums, etc, and as the keeper of the RAW archive I think he is certainly entitled to try to keep the record straight...

Right now, away from the city, most of this seems silly - as I find I prefer distinguishing buzzards from red kites (by their tails) or spotting a heron by the river, to caring much about humans or what they think of each other.

Watch the news, genocide in Darfur, young males stabbing each other all over the UK (like the Elizabethan times), people worrying that money isn't worth what it was, Council workers on strike, I just don't care.

The Purple Gooroo said...

Bogus: Oh, I wasn't saying you were contradicting QB--I apologise if it came across that way...

I was only saying that it seems easier to just let the guy be who he "is", rather than try and shout him down (though I did find QBs comment pretty hilarious)...same with those FundaMENTAList Discordians..and the people at the Copywriters site (I did go and read your posts there, by the way--I nearly signed up, just to increase the 'Operation Mindfuck' factor there..but in the end, I just couldn't be bothered).

I didn't like Ben Mack trying to use RAW's name to sell his book either--and I told him so, at this site, in fact. He then patronized me with a tag-line about "swimming in meme-pools" (another selling tool of his). I'm not a huge fan of his, but I'll defend his right to free speech.

Bobby Campbell said...

Well I'll say this about Ben Mack, he can generate more discussion w/ spam than I can w/ elaborately crafted content. Says something about something, I suppose!

The Purple Gooroo said...

Heh heh - sorry about that, Bobby...I dig your efforts, I apologise for not praising them more.

I suppose it was a bit un-necessary, dragging out the Ben Mack discussion any further than it needed to.

Bogus Magus said...


I think Ben thrives on the 'any publicity is better than no publicity' schtick (think Crowley) - which means that the only way you can respond to annoy him is to totally ignore him (or even delete his comments).

Personally, I don't feel the right to censor anything but the most blatant spam here - as we originally intended it as a blog for mosbunall of the MLA crew, who certainly don't agree on everything.

And his tactic of using Google Alerts to respond quickly to just about anyone who posts anything with his name in it seems quite interesting to me.

It makes him seem omniscient and omnipresent - quite a good trick in the meme ocean :-)

I can learn tricks from anyone, I don't have to personally like them.

Bobby Campbell said...

It's hard to strike a value neutral tone via text, and similarly hard to prevent the perception of unintended insinuations!

I meant just to notice that BM has created a rather galvanizing character, which seems to require little personal input to produce a large public reaction.

And that my own character seems to operate inversely proportional to his.

For better & worse!

More of a note to myself, I suppose, hence probably where static gets in the signal.



Bogus Magus said...

I suppose, before going on with my BM thing, I should point out that QB runs probably the best RAW site in the world – a place where you could go and browse for hours – and that we keep a high profile permanent link to – RAWilsonFans.

And as Bobby and I more or less carry this blog right now I would like to re-affirm my delight in his company and in his work – both graphic and conceptual.

Inevitably, if we wanted to go freelance, we would need to study self-promotion, and even if you considered Ben a model of ‘how not to do it to appeal to the crowd you hope to reach’ you can surely learn from him. IMHO.

I don’t even know if the Academy has had its day. After all, I reckoned I had graduated last year (July 23rd) but here I find myself still involved in the Maybe meme a year later, and even due to meet up (July 23rd) with other graduate students.

Ben appears to want people to write. I want to write more.

To be honest (don’t you distrust people who start with that?) I seem to remember Ben saying he had written to Bob for a review and offered him $400 for it. Now whether I dreamed that, or just made it up, or Ben told me, I can’t remember. It may not mean Bob ever read the book, he may just have needed $400, and not worried about his reputation as much as other people do (having spent a lot of his time spreading scurrilous rumours about himself, Tim Leary, etc).

Ben certainly seems to be drawing on Hakim Bey’s TAZ – well, I say certainly, but you may remember that All Cretans Are Liars. And maybe you haven’t read Hakim Bey. Maybe I haven’t. It amazes me how many people say rude things about BM without actually having read Poker Without Cards. First thing I did, before talking to him online. It took itself too seriously, and missed Bob's delightful humor (humour) but so do I.

When BM wrote to Vonnegut to say he had used the name Howard Campbell in his fiction, and got a quotable one-liner back, he quoted it as blurb. I think it may have been a Copy & Paste joke from Kurt (I’ve seen him use it elsewhere) but that’s OK, surely? For blurb.

Anyway, before I start to sound like a BM fan club (just because we share initials doesn’t mean we have anything much else in common) I’d just like to categorically deny that I am Ben Mack in disguise…but the more I deny it, I guess, the more suspicious it may seem. OhMMMMMMMMy…

For people who missed it the first time – Ben Commented on a post here earlier this year, and we had a long exchange in the Comments….and then I added a post about PWC.

And a little research will uncover such humorous moments as this reviewer appearing to suspect they had spotted RAW concealed behind the BM avatar…

I myself would love to talk to him about his meeting Bucky as a bright child…that part of his life has to interest people who come here, surely? And Bucky seemed pretty good at self-promotion, too – given that very few of his inventions actually went into production. And I guess we have our interest in magic (not magick) too.

If you wanna play catch-up, check out the Tim Boucher interview.


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